IT vs Rest of India - Part II
India has many faces and IT is India’s most glamorous face. After all, it’s not often that India is amongst the world’s best in something. Just imagine the pain of scrolling down the medals tally to find the sole Indian medal right at the bottom. In fact if you are logically inclined, you would start right at the bottom while looking for India in the medals tally.
But being good is one sector is one thing. Talking about development as a country is a completely different ball game. All this ‘development‘ and other luxuries I mentioned in the prev. post are relevant and applicable only for those who have a BE/MCA or higher with a good academic record(read consistent right from standard 10) from a reputed institute and a handful of years of experience.
On the other hand if you have cousins in villages and happen to meet them, try asking about the last time they made some money from their cultivation, the last time the water walves were opened from the nearby reservoir and the way the average agricultural productivity has gone in the last 10 years and alas we have a different tale to tell. The not so glamorous face of India. An India which let thousands of farmers starve to death while the food grains in the FCI godowns are left to decay.
This in essence is the story of India ever since 1991. The fate of agriculture is shared by all other local industries. For example, Coimbatore which was an important textile and mechanical engineering hub has been a witness to a gradual closure of these industries.
With the IT companies sweeping the recruitment in top engineering colleges, Non-IT friendly (IT friendly branches includes ECE,EEE, Instu etc.) branches of engineering is all but vanishing. Hey have anyone but heard about one branch called civil engineering? Not many private eng. colleges give that course. By the way where do all these IT engineers work? Open air? Don’t they need civil engineers to construct 300 crore campuses which can house 20,000 employees at the same time?
This gradual decline in other industries contribution to the economy has led to a surge in the people coming to bigger cities for survival. It was mentioned sometime ago that about 3000 families migrate to Bangalore every week. No wonder Bangalore’s traffic is a pain in the piles region. And Chennai is not exactly offering a pleasure ride either.
There exist in the same city two distinct sections of the population in the Indian cities. The techie community and the community which survives by servicing the techie community. True there have always been rich and poor. But there was also one section called middle class which was like a buffer. But now that middle class has been ripped apart and pushed to upper class and lower class respectively.
While a techie thinks 100 bucks is peanuts, there are youths coming to Chennai and Bangalore and willing to kill for the same 100 bucks. This lopsided growth is unsustainable and unrealistic. In fact this is not growth at all. What do we call if a cell in one part of the body grows disproportionately at the expense of the other cells? Medicine calls it cancer.
What is the way out? I don’t know.
July 22nd, 2005 at 10:59 pm
true indeed.
We need to invest more on science and technology to make farming more efficient and growth productive.
Merely giving out subsidies is not going to help, goverments will go bankrupt and vicious cycle continues.
July 22nd, 2005 at 11:01 pm
Ganesh
yep. i thought about one suggestion. But i am not sure if it can be enforced. it has to come from the corporate india. more in my next post
July 23rd, 2005 at 12:02 am
prabhu,
Every body is looking for trickle down economy.what you have forgotten is money is coming to india as a whole all the forex reserves dont end up in the hands of an MCA dn BE guy.It trickles here and there.But yes the gap between the middle class and the lower middle cass or poor people is widening.We have to invest in rural economy to balance it.
July 23rd, 2005 at 12:51 am
A very honest post, Prabhu. The ‘development’ is only going on in the metros. Or major cities. The poor still remains to be poor. The government should be looking forward to improve the agriculture industry to save the villagers. Very nice post and thought.
July 23rd, 2005 at 2:23 am
Techie Techie …Guess these Techies work for US/other countries being in India for their technological development..
I heard from few of my s/w friends about Indian techies hands on online bill payment facilities,(be it Bank transactions or paying a utility) and other user friendly applications.Can the same be implemented in India? Still we stand in queue to pay electricity bill,bank transactions,and what not..what does these s/w giants do for our country ?? If you know of any technological advances that made a “middle class ” life easier, let me know..Thanks !!
July 23rd, 2005 at 3:23 am
First a comment on comments -
Senthil -
Forex money trickles where.? Into Swiss bank accounts.
If the money generated by IT is properly reservoired/channeled, why would the farmers suffer?
Adengappa -
Railway reservation - Hats off.! I even had the opportunity to talk to one of the top implementors about it.!
I like it..and I think we can even do it online ( Prabhu and folks in India can talk about the minuses there).
But I agree, A lot many things can be done.!
==========================
Now to Prabhu -
Our Govt. has to have a Vision first of all.
What is India first.
a - Is is a Agricultural Country
b - Industrial
C - Something else.
Then they should balance the act. I hope all of you ( Like I do) would agree about Dr.Manmohan Singh…in that he is a great guy.
But the Ass……s around him…have to change.!
If this line between IT and NON-IT continues..!! and if the other areas are neglected…India will have tough issues.
People who get frustrated might turn to terrorism as is evident in hopeless countries like ( eg. Pakistan , Saudi, Aden , Somalia, etc…etc..) where the youth don’t have a clue what they want to do.!
July 23rd, 2005 at 3:36 am
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July 23rd, 2005 at 3:42 am
Well, if we look at the basic problems, then license raj & socialist policies which we are carrying out has pinned us down in many fields. Growth in IT sector should be attributed to the less restrains we have from the government regulations. IT sector has received benefits & incentives in form of tax exceptions and at same time these benefits and reforms weren’t extended to other sectors.
Agriculture sector faces problems mainly because of poor water management(depletion of ground water & managing of rivers & irrigation canals), inability of the government to provide minimum support price for farmer’s produce(due to corruption in market yards) and inability of farmer to adopt to latest technology to increase their productivity(due to financial & lack of knowledge). Government should advise farmers about domestic & international markets for their produce and they should also get involved aggressively in educating & advising farmers about suitable crops they can grow based on scientific & environmental data and profits they can earn. We should nationalize our rivers to avoid inter-state disputes and also harvest rain water in large scale.
Our textile industry is in serious condition with desperate need for capital and also we need to modernize it to compete with china & other south asian/pacific countries. We need to have lot of investment for this and to facilitate this we have to reform our labour laws, otherwise we will lose FDI to china and other countries. If our government delays in these implementation we will lose badly in present post quota regime. Labour unions should be told/educated firmly that reforms may be harsh but it will improve their working conditions and wages, as well as bring us profits to the nation, therefore resisting reforms is like resisting to the riches.
I think because of uneven policy reforms & regulations in various sectors is the reason for backwardness and for a beginning, we can do well by opening all sectors for FDIs. Everything is interrelated and if we don’t improve our infrastructure(roads & ports) then it will stall the progress made in any of these fields. Same way, if there is disproportional progress in one field then this may create pressure on government to develop other sectors too.
July 23rd, 2005 at 7:08 am
Folks, first of all, thanks a ton for these responses. All of them thought provoking.
July 23rd, 2005 at 7:12 am
@Senthil
i did not forget the trickle down effect or whatever.
But with the way things have been trickling down and the way the IT industry has been raking in the moola, there is bound to be a polarisation of IT vs Non-IT in the society.
A Wipro,Infy,TCS offers 20K per month to a fresher. Can anyone dream of such a salary in a non-It industry?.
my point is simple. IT is good. But IT does not mean balanced growth for a country like India.
July 23rd, 2005 at 7:14 am
Jo
thanks. as you have rightly said, for the IT industy India means bangalore, chennai, hyderabad, noida, mumbai, pune. thats about it.
July 23rd, 2005 at 7:20 am
adengappa,
as narayanan sir has said there are apps.but for apps to run u need machines and connectivity right? we dont have that across india. nor is there any awareness even among city bred youth abt online reservation.
next time u r here, see the crowd in railway booking centers.
now think abt semi-urban areas and villages.
fundamentally what u say is right, indian techies will not write code to make life easier for indians.
a prooject request from India is derogatively considered ‘local’ by many companies.
July 23rd, 2005 at 7:59 am
@narayanan sir,
to the extent i know abt macroeconomics(or else vatsan has to correct me here), india is primarily an agri economy but the problem is our productivity is very poor.
we were not good in manufacturing either.(mainly PSUs, except for some navaratna PSUs)
so the govt started to move towards services sector and privatisation.
adhaan indha pvt investment, foegn investment etc.
but it has practically given up n the other two.
india needs a balanced economic growth.
more on this later. i need to go thru something before i write.
July 23rd, 2005 at 8:01 am
shuuro
very elaborate and thought provoking comment.
July 23rd, 2005 at 8:40 am
hi Pk,
Honest post…I recently met my colleague’s husband and we were generally talking…he adviced me to go back to india after my studies as all the jobs from US have gone to India…he asked me a question “Does every 1 in india study computer science?” Y do u have so many IT companies in India? Dont people study architecture, history, Economics?
Seriously PK, I am wondering if people in India study history, geology, etc…may be its because the students are forced to study engineering.. I wanted to study forensic science in india…but my parents wanted me to do Engineering….I guess the only way is to reduce the number of engineering colleges so that many people widen their horizons…
are all the engineering colleges reputed? I hear from my dad’s friends son has joined engineering at andalalagar college of engineering…seriously first time I heard that name….he paid 1.5 lakhs to get into computer science..wats the use…this IT sucks big time….
AK
July 23rd, 2005 at 12:27 pm
anon ak(hope not 47),
yep. we dont teach our schools kids english et al.
koncham abcd, if, then, for, next, new, objects and then straight to .NEt or java:-))
i am trying to be humorous but thats only a slight exaggeration i tell u.:)
andal azhagar college u dont know? hey thats our “captain” vijaykanth’s college. u ought to know such trivias…
if i’m not asking too much how abt revealing yr full name?
July 23rd, 2005 at 12:29 pm
we get carried away with the boom
no wholistic appraoch to development
thanjavur cultivators moving to middl east on petty jobs tells the tales of poverty resulting out of noncultivation ….
whover said ” chola nadu sorudaitthu”
uma
July 23rd, 2005 at 12:35 pm
uma
exactly..
ippo chozha naadu kallu dhaan udaikudhu. cultivable fields are gradually becoming plots for sale.
July 23rd, 2005 at 11:02 pm
narayanan sir and prabhu,
u guys missed me.iam also talking the same thing.That trickle down econmony cannot benefit everybody.But IT is good for india, the non IT fields might not be equaling the salary levels of IT.But the IT is definitely fueling the growth of other industires.pharmacheutical and automobile industries now and doing good because of the growth driven by the IT industries.Infosys wants to build its own hotel.Wipro wants to diversify etc are all again due to the growth of IT.And offcourse there is call centers and other outsourcing. I heard about outsourcing of church prayers and child tutoring which is not IT.
But narayan sir i disagree.IT is growing at this rate because of less interference from the politicians. you dont have to go and see a minister to get a project in USA.For a IT compnay to be succesfull you dont need a politician. And most of the accounting is transparent.So no the money is not going to swiss banks.The money i said is being chanalised into various profit oriented industires.Can’t do anthing about that , that is captalism.
But yes the gap is dangerously widening and that’s why we have to develop a strong rural based economy.And we have to invest heavily in social development of the rural areas.
July 23rd, 2005 at 11:39 pm
@senthil
“But the IT is definitely fueling the growth of other industires.pharmacheutical and automobile industries now and doing good because of the growth driven by the IT industries”
like how?i am just curious i want to know more.
infosys is building its own hotel for its own employees and guests
“The money i said is being channelised into various profit oriented industires.”
am not sure. if that is the case then i wud not be blogging abt this at all…
u take the cash reserves of all these big IT companies and find out how much they have invested in other industries…
only TCS had some inclination to invest its proceed from its IPO to other of its engineering industries..
adhvum therila…
but the rest?
July 23rd, 2005 at 11:52 pm
Senthil,
Trickle effect true - I also apologize for not thinking a little deeper.
Before IT…where was the trickle effect? Was there any….that we didn’t notice? I am clueless.!
About Politicians influence on IT - I can tell you it is not 100% true. Case in point - My friend who wanted to start his software company in Export processing zone..He told me horror stories.
Premji/NarayanaMurthy won’t have the guts to talk about all their problems with politics that freely I guess.!
=======================
Prabhu - So, what do our History books say now? When I was young I read ‘ India is an agricultural country’.
You said Services - How is that sector doing? Has is reached the villages yet.!
July 24th, 2005 at 12:26 am
@narayanan sir
the idea is u need not have huge capital investment for this services sector in general.
so they opted for the principle of least interference, FDi etc.
villages… adhelam India va enna?:)
they’d say they need good intrastructure, 5 star hotels, nice place to chill out
idhella irundha dhaan varuvenpaanga…
if it had been in villages we wud not be discussing this…
July 24th, 2005 at 8:53 pm
prabhu,
First of all, IT was the industry that made brand india a reliable one.Till then people where not sure baout doing anythign with india.It opened to the world that indians can do buisness in there land in there style.It gave them confidence about india.It gave he picture of india as a knowledge source.
Today most of the big auto giants have research centers in india.And more people are wanting to manufacture spare parts in india.similarly pharmacheutical industry is also setting up or going to set up research centers in india.
infosys is building the hotel for its guest.but who is going to work there.not an mca or a BE guy.That is exactly trickle down effect.
Yes some of them are investing and some of them are not.where is the money going?. it is with the share holders.who might be a businessman a NON IT guy.He in turn might again invest in another non IT company.Why do u think the indian stock market sensex index is hitting the top, if only one sector is growing.
why is the real estate going up?.why
does every foreign automobile company in the world is entering india?.why does new foreign style shopping centers are coming up?.Think about all the above scenoarios, here the buyer might be an IT guy, but how many non it people are benefiting out of it.
So to answer ur question it is not one cell that is growing, many cells are growing, but the growth area is very less compared to the total area.The benifits have been trickling down in cities and towns and not at a greater level into villages.That’s why we have to develop a rural economy .
July 24th, 2005 at 9:02 pm
narayanan sir,
Trickle down effect is there.but still in cities and towns.not to the rural areas.And that’s why the farmers are suffereing.
politicial interference are there in a few cases in IT industry. But it is not suffering like other industries because of that.
And most of the buisness man dont talk against politicians. Since the days of kings they have been people who try to win favours from the authority than fight agaisnt them.
July 24th, 2005 at 10:14 pm
@senthil
First and foremost did i ever deny the trickle effect? No. but its just ridiculously low and an inappropriate model for a country like India as a whole.thats the whole point.
Infosys can do much better than build a hotel for themselves frankly.
money always trickles from the rich to the poor. i dont see that as an active contribution, it happens by default. they dont have an option do they?
my fathers periappa and his sons, jewellers paid lakhs as taxes. and obviously wud have spent a lot for their luxuries. what matters is how productive its for the economy?
i dont think they deserve to be appreciated for the contribution to the economy or whatever.
if at all there is anyn contribution its just like any tax payers contribution.
think abt it, IT industry as such do not need capital like other industries. they are just getting themselves filthy rich and yes they do go to and from pondy every weekend to have fun. idhaan reality.of course all the resorts in ECR road caters to this niche group.
yr trickle down effect.
if u ask me if this is contribution, it is i agree.
but its no the ideal kinda method to contribute to the countries economy. a poor country like india.
Again i dont think Indian auto industries and pharma are happening places now bcos of IT.
that statement effectively undermines their capability. they are doing well bcos of liberalisation and they are intrinsially good so they can stand the international competition.its got something to do with liberalisation policy and not IT.Period.
Lets face it Indian IT industry is good. we rake in the moola. we are economical. we offer value for money for foreign customer. US economy has more sya on the IT industry than indian govt or economy.
i am not denying this at all. its like sachin tendulkar getting a 300 when india is bound to lose.
u r talking abt the mumbai share market and attribute its boom to IT industry?
just put a cap on FII exposure and u will see where the sensex will head to.
And no the stock broker community has not been the key deciding community as far as yardstick for india’s development is concerned. when did harsad mehta got rich? long before IT revolution. he got caught in 92.
As u say, this does not gets translated to rural areas.
i am saying there are sections in urban areas even where there is a huge division which can be addressed and if dont address it there will defintely be unrest in the country’s IT centric cities. This trickle down or whatever is just like water trickling down from mettur dam.this is not going to save the crop(whatever little) in tanjore.idhan en point.
u r living the life of a king ammidst a country of poor people and this will impact the mentality of others when u dont even seem to try to understand their plight and help their cause.
u can say nothing can be don abt it. i say if we try to address the imbalances at least there will not be unrest.
its very difficult to live in a city with 5000 6000 bucks per month senthil. thanks to IT revolution. just bcos i am getting much more does not preclude me to talk on behalf of those 6k pm guy’s plight in a city like chennai.
July 25th, 2005 at 7:51 pm
prabhu,
if sensex is not a indicator of the country economic growth .then what about the govt economic growth rate, industrial output..they are also high.shouldn’t that be an indicator.
if iam earning 50K per month.should not i spent it in a resort in ECR??.Isn’t that what we strive for, earning money to spend it as the way we want it.prachu there has always been rich people.if not for an IT guy a rich industrialist or a jeweller would go and spend it there.what do you think is the solution for this prblm?
Are u advocating communism??/socialism??.I thought u were blaming the govt.Are u blamming the people also??.
Think we seem to agree with villages.LEt’s talk about town and cities.when i grew up we were a middle class there were lot of rich peoples than us.I didn’t have any ill feeling.U accept the situatino and strive for best.Now i have grown up a bit in my economic standing. Think i can call myself upper middle class.And this is the case with many peoples in IT.
Think +ive abt this.Say if the upper middle class was 3% 10 yrs before now, probably it is 8% now.more people are moving up on the economic ladder,which is good.you are advocating that 100% people should move up at the same instance, which is not possible.
July 25th, 2005 at 7:56 pm
@senthil
i am not advocating socialism or communism or whatever.
ok let me post my views in another post and be done with it once and for all…